Hall Monitor: Overtime

April 18, 2012July 26, 2017 Josie Vallier

Again last night, our elected officials took to the halls of city hall for meeting 13-2012 of Kingston City Council. You can find the agenda and addeds from last night on the city’s website.

I think I summed up the meeting best as I was walking away from city hall and had not quite made it to the first set of stairs: What a show. Last night, we saw the rare full house at City Hall – so full that the city broke open memorial hall as an overflow room again. It was the busiest I’d seen the place – and I was there the night Occupy was evicted. The draw? Bingo halls – more specifically, allowing electronic gaming in bingo halls. We heard from two speakers about the item, too. And the debate on it… Didn’t exist. The item passed as part of a discussion-less group that also granted money to Dawn House and corrected the infamous ‘Tragically Hip Way’ to include the word ‘The’.

The story of the night, though, was the Hockey Hall of Fame’s request for $400,000.00. The item was presented to council much like the one to honour the tragically hop was – multiple choices with the councillors choosing to table whichever one they wanted. Councillor Kevin George opted to put the option to grant them the full amount on the table at 8:44 pm, and the fireworks began. With a little work – and a lot of debate – the final decision came two hours later and was to approve $200,000.00 in a single lump sum – on the condition that they can get a commitment for 95% of the 1.2 million dollars they were looking for. Nothing was off the table from the amendments, though: Amount changes, spreading the money out over multiple years, demanding additional control over the hall and attempting to tie it to performance.

Once that was over, council – well, didn’t do much. First, they extended the meeting to 11:30 – though they tried to extend through the end of the agenda. Next, they debated and then deferred an item about a pilot project for secondary suites, then they passed the Heritage Committee reports (except for the deferral of 235 Frontenac Street), then they re-deferred a pair of housing items that were deferred two weeks ago, and then – in a glorious move to send everyone home – the Mayor asked the Clerk if anything left on the agenda was time sensitive… and council deferred everything that wasn’t. A confusing (though speedy) read through the miscellaneous business and by-law sections, and we were out of there. I can’t help but wonder if we’re eventually going to need a meeting.

We were powered by a new laptop and webcam last night with a spot at the media desk, and my fingers aren’t quite used to the new keyboard. Our full stream is below – see you in two weeks.

7:23 PM: Going to be a full house down here tonight! ^TV #ygkc
7:28 PM: I apologize in advance for typos – new laptop. ^TV #ygkc
7:29 PM: There are more people here tonight than the night the #occupy Kingston eviction happened. I’m guessing the bingo issue. ^TV #ygkc
7:34 PM: Bell rings – and so we begin. FULL house. ^TV #ygkc
7:36 PM: We’re out of closed session and adding a few things – plus removing one. Some order questions from Downes. ^TV #ygkc
7:38 PM: Disclosure from Downes – and a #mayorjokes about not having discussion on the PARC issue. He had to clarify: Nobody laughed. ^TV #ygkc
7:39 PM: First delegation is up – talking about the allowance of electronic gaming in bingo halls.
7:43 PM: Firsst delegation is up, discussing the merit of allowing electronic bingo at two of our halls. ^TV #ygkc
7:45 PM: Mayor correcting the delegate about the chain: “For the record, it’s silver and gold plated”. #mayorjokes ^TV #ygkc
7:51 PM: Our third delegate is on a housing issue, instead of the original bingo issue. At least it’s a change. ^TV #ygkc
7:56 PM: Secondary suites delegate ends. Mayor: I’ve never been quotes so much by a delegation. Will need a publicist. #mayorjokes ^TV #ygkc
7:56 PM: Quick late add to the agenda, Mark Potter of the IHHOF. ^TV #ygkc
7:59 PM: Delegation: Money will be an investment: rebranding, new displays, new cabinets… ^TV #ygkc
8:01 PM: Mayor suggests that Q&A wait until the item to ask questions. Glover corrects him on a point of order. Mayor says he’s right. ^TV #ygkc
8:04 PM: Glover asking about add’l funding and applications that the IHHF has applied for. They’ve applied for one, but not yet 2 others. ^TV #ygkc
8:05 PM: Downes asking about spreading the money out. Delegate wants it all at once to allow for capital costs. ^TV #ygkc
8:06 PM: Hector asking about how much oversight the city could have. Delegate comments that councillors could sit on the board. ^TV #ygkc
8:07 PM: Mayor: that with city interest, IHHF could get loan. “Have you seen our credit rating, it’s better than the US gov’t.” #mayorjokes ^TV #ygkc
8:08 PM: Hutchison asking about if the money will be both capital and operating as contingency is for operating costs. ^TV #ygkc
8:09 PM: Delegate says that the money from the city would only be used for capital costs. ^TV #ygkc
8:12 PM: Osanic asking about if the IIHF participates or would participate in Doors Open. Delegate confirms they have, and will. ^TV #ygkc
8:13 PM: Neill: Anything we approve is anticipating add’l money. Wants to know what happens if the city is the only investor.
8:14 PM: Delegate: City’s money would be contingent on the additional investors approving money. ^TV #ygkc
8:15 PM: Neill: At cur. location city covers utilities; and there hasn’t been recent rent. If the IHHF moves, those costs are the museum’s ^TV #ygkc
8:16 PM: Delegate: The biz plan has been tested through Queen’s and is going to work. 20k visitors/yr is achievable. ^TV #ygkc
8:18 PM: Q&A over. We skim past briefings and petitions and move into the emotionals. ^TV #ygkc
8:21 PM: We’re onto report 50. A few separations. Follow the agenda at http://t.co/XARmSq51 ^TV #ygkc
8:22 PM: The bulk of 50 just went through, bingo item included. That was easy. ^TV #ygkc
8:23 PM: The room starting to empty. Glover asking about the increase in bench seats planned in the report. ^TV #ygkc
8:24 PM: Discussion is about a third party advertising deal for bus benches. ^TV #ygkc
8:25 PM: Glover: Would have liked to see a premium rate as the benches are for express service – with premium locations.
8:26 PM: Transit item gets deferred by two weeks to allow for additional information. ^TV #ygkc
8:27 PM: Cnclr Scott appreciative of fees being proposed for renewable energy consultations. ^TV #ygkc
8:35 PM: Discussion on the second half of the renewable energy items, item f. Questions about what the addeds includes. ^TV #ygkc
8:39 PM: Cnclr Scoot: Happy to see the reneable energy items. Says additional applications are on the way from info he has. ^TV #ygkc
8:41 PM: Second renewable item passes and Cnclr Scott and Reitzel high-five. On stream. Well played. ^TV #ygkc
8:42 PM: We are onto the IIHF item. Should be a lively debate. ^TV #ygkc
8:44 PM: Item to provide the IIHF withe it’s 400k is on the table, presented by Cnclr George. ^TV #ygkc
8:46 PM: Cnclr George commenting that Kingston prides itself on it’s hockey history and should jump onn opportunity to support the museum. ^TV #ygkc
8:47 PM: We’re testing live streaming at http://t.co/8Nl3PGHC – watch the Hockey Hall of Fame debate live! ^TV #ygkc
8:48 PM: Quick substitution of a vague “substantial” to 95%. City would only give money of 95% of total ask is raised. #ygkc ^TV
8:50 PM: Cnclr Hector not sure how she could justify the expenditure without oversight, despite being a supporter of the museum. #ygkc ^TV
8:51 PM: Cnclr Hector: We wouldn’t be entertaining this if it was a business. Part is a business, though they call themself a non-profit. #ygkc ^TV
8:52 PM: Hector not planning on supporting this as it stands. Mayor hands the chair to the deputy to ask his questions. #ygkc ^TV
8:53 PM: Mayor asking about if the board members are paid or volunteers. Staff indicates they are volunteers. #ygkc ^TV
8:54 PM: Mayor asking about spreading the money over multiple years. Staff confirms. Also asked if the IHHF could get a loan. #ygkc ^TV
8:55 PM: Staff says bank would likely recognize the city’s interest over 4 years if they were to apply for a loan. #ygkc ^TV
8:56 PM: Mayor asking about the value of the collection: Could the city get some security against the collection for money? #ygkc ^TV
8:56 PM: Staff: City operates two museums. Could not sell the collection on the open market. #ygkc ^TV
8:59 PM: Mayor: Current building has not been kept to current standards. Falling apart and is not accessible. #ygkc ^TV
9:02 PM: Cnclr Schell ended up stuck – wasn’t sure what to do as chair… Not used to the deputy mayor spot. #ygkc ^TV
9:02 PM: Mayor sees three options: 1: Walk away. 2: Refurbish the old building for 1.4 million. 3. Help to support. #ygkc ^TV
9:03 PM: Mayor has asked for an amendment to spread 400k over 4 years. #ygkc ^TV
9:04 PM: Glover: If they closed part-way through funding would the money over 4 years stop? #ygkc ^TV
9:08 PM: Testing the live stream with the Hockey Hall debate. And conducting a live poll! View at http://t.co/8Nl3PGHC #ygkc ^TV
9:11 PM: Neill asking to clarify Mayor’s amendment. Amendment was strictly on spreading payment, not the amount. #ygkc ^TV
9:12 PM: Downes: We are responsible to the taxpayer. Questioning what happens if they don’t meet fundraising or attendance goals #ygkc ^TV
9:13 PM: Downes: They should need to make those numbers ater 4 years. 50% after 1yr, 75% after 3, 100% after 4. #ygkc ^TV
9:16 PM: Cnclr Downes drawing comparisons of this business plan request to the one that the city rec’d from the K-Rock Centre. #ygkc ^TV
9:17 PM: Coun Downes doesn`t support the 400,000 over 4 years; not supporting amendment. #ygkc ^TV
9:18 PM: Cncle Scott cautions about adding clauses and strings about success that may cause it not to succeed. #ygkc ^TV
9:20 PM: Cnclr Scott wants strings (95%) removed. Cnclr George agrees. #ygkc ^TV
9:21 PM: Coun. George drawing comparisons to other major capital investments like the train refurbishment and the Grand Theatre. #ygkc ^TV
9:23 PM: Counc. Hutchison will disagree with amendment, though it has nothing to do with other projects. Wants a deferral. #ygkc ^TV
9:25 PM: Mayor: this is a political decision, should be made by the people at the horseshoe, not city staff. #ygkc ^TV
9:27 PM: Mayor: If you are against the funding, you should be FOR the amendment. Makes the funding more difficult. #ygkc ^TV
9:30 PM: The spread over 4 years went to a recorded vote… #ygkc ^TV
9:30 PM: #ygkc #rv REQ: Mayor; SB: N; RD: N; KG: N; MG: Y; BG: Y; DH: N; RH: N; JN: N; LO: Y; BP: N; BR: Y; LS: Y; JS: N ^TV
9:31 PM: The four-years spread amendment is defeated. We’re back to the main item – and Hitchison is up first. #ygkc ^TV
9:34 PM: Coun Hitchison asking for a deferral now for a viability analysis with the report going to ARC. #ygkc ^TV
9:37 PM: Cnclr Neill on a point of order: Item should only be discussed on time and place. Mayor says he is right. #ygkc ^TV
9:38 PM: Deferral fails. Counc Hutchison takes the floor back. #ygkc ^TV
9:39 PM: Amendment now being proposed by Counc Hutchison to 200k instead of 400k. #ygkc ^TV
9:40 PM: The mayor is worried of a slipper slope. Amendment for 200k, then maybe a 300k, or 205… now should be the time to talk numbers. #ygkc ^TV
9:41 PM: Coun. George says that 200k won’t work. They need 400k to get money from other levels of govt. #ygkc ^TV
9:43 PM: Counc. Osanic also worried about “me too” requests for non-profits… comments on another upcoming item. #ygkc ^TV
9:46 PM: Counc Neill: Unsure if by changing the amount if the city is not just providing money to a business model then destined to fail. #ygkc ^TV
9:47 PM: Counc Neill: 200k is more palatable. Softens the blow to the tax payers. #ygkc ^TV
9:48 PM: Mayor: We first helped the museum get on their, now they need to sustain themselves. This helps them get there. #ygkc ^TV
9:50 PM: Counc Scott asking if KEDCO thinks this would attract visitors from out of town. #ygkc ^TV
9:52 PM: KEDCO hasn’t done specific research for this movve. Counc Scott worried that a reduction from the city will cascade. #ygkc ^TV
9:55 PM: Counc Schell and Reitzel both want to keep the amount to 400k. “We’re either in or we’re not” – Schell. #ygkc ^TV
9:56 PM: Schell is concerned about the business plan, but thinks it’s a wise investment. #ygkc ^TV
9:57 PM: Glover: 200k is an excellent proposal. Worried about the use of the word leveraging. Delegate said they had already applied. #ygkc ^TV
9:57 PM: Counc Glover doubts that the city’s contribution will impact others – particularly the Sunshine Foundation. #ygkc ^TV
9:58 PM: Glover: A reminder that this isn’t a museum. #ygkc ^TV
10:02 PM: Hector: Supports the reduction to 200k, which would help force and encourage private entities to jump in. #ygkc ^TV
10:03 PM: Hector indicating that a show of 200k would help them to approach private firms for money. City’s support would be a boost. #ygkc ^TV
10:04 PM: Coun. Downes doesn’t like how the debate is being phrased – how each person is for or against. 200k sets city up for blame #ygkc ^TV
10:05 PM: A reminder; We’re only about half-way through the agenda. Still have a massive afforable housing item coming up. #ygkc ^TV
10:05 PM: Coun. Downes just corrected by the mayor that he needs to stay focused on the amount. Downes says he is. #ygkc ^TV
10:06 PM: Downes strays to lease signing and other items.. Mayor again reminds him that he needs to speak only to 200k v 400k. #ygkc ^TV
10:07 PM: Mayor rules Coun. Downes out of order. #ygkc ^TV
10:08 PM: Recorded vote requested by Neill, I missed the list, though. Amendment carried. Anyone have the vote breakdown? #ygkc ^TV
10:09 PM: Coun Neill asked for a rec. vote. Mayor asked if he could exhaust list, Neill agreed. Mayor ran out of names. #mayorjokes #ygkc ^TV
10:10 PM: We’re back to the item. Coun Hutchison says he’s done. Neill is up: Applauds them for eagerness. #ygkc ^TV
10:14 PM: Counc Osanic opts not to speak after Neill finishes his point. Glover up next. #ygkc ^TV
10:20 PM: Glover concerned that the material that they’ve been presented has been vague so far. #ygkc ^TV
10:24 PM: Counc Glover: Just because we have been their landlord, doesn’t mean we have to help them landlord. Compares with school museum #ygkc ^TV
10:25 PM: Counc Patterson wants to know about if it’s in order to amend the passed amendment. #ygkc ^TV
10:27 PM: Mayor: That would be either a reconsideration or another motion as item hasn’t yet passed. #ygkc ^TV
10:27 PM: Mayor: Point is likely moot as council seems likely set on 200k. Permits him to present it. Neill point of orders. #ygkc ^TV
10:28 PM: Neill challenges the chair on the ruling that Patterson can present his change. Says the opportunity has already passed. #ygkc ^TV
10:29 PM: Neill says that it would require reconsideration – not just a new motion. #ygkc ^TV
10:31 PM: Challenge of the chair fails. Patterson may present his motion. #ygkc ^TV
10:32 PM: Council voting now on increasing from 200k to 300k. #ygkc ^TV
10:33 PM: Motion fails, amount stays at 200k. Counc Patterson resumes. #ygkc ^TV
10:35 PM: Last speaker. Coun. George. We’re about to vote, recorded requested by the Mayor. #ygkc ^TV
10:42 PM: Hockey Hall vote. #ygkc #rv REQ: Mayor; SB: Y; RD: N; KG: Y; MG: Y; BG: Y; DH: Y; RH: Y; JN: N; LO: Y; BP: Y; BR: Y; LS: Y; JS: Y ^TV
10:42 PM: Council grants $200,000.00 to the Hockey Hall of Fame for relocatioon, rebranding and revitalization. #ygkc ^TV
10:44 PM: We’re into the next report. A condo item passes. Osanic wants to amend Secondary Suite pilot item to include full city. #ygkc ^TV
10:45 PM: Osanic joked that maybe her amendment to this item wouldn’t take 2,5hours. #ygkc ^TV
10:47 PM: Counc. Scott seconds the expansion amendment. The mayor declares a potential pecuniary and steps out. #ygkc ^TV
10:47 PM: Counc Patterson says that expanding to full city makes this not a pilot project. #ygkc ^TV
10:49 PM: Counc Neill likes the principal of expanding it, but has concerns about if it will affect Williamsville. #ygkc ^TV
10:51 PM: Council votes to extend until 11:30. First attempt was to extend until agenda completion failed on a tie. #ygkc ^TV
10:57 PM: Counc Hector moving deferral; but the move is suspended until Counc George speaks. #ygkc ^TV
11:00 PM: Motion to defer passes and the Mayor returns. Attempts to leave for the night (#mayorjokes). #ygkc ^TV
11:02 PM: Report 53 from heritage passes. Report 54 from heritage is tabled incl. new designations, so staff is giving a quick briefing. #ygkc ^TV
11:06 PM: Most of 54 passes. Item 6 (KCVI) is up now, Downes steps out on conflict as a school board employee. #ygkc ^TV
11:07 PM: Glover mentions that PARC was not a concern at heritage meeting. Designation is of the building, not the contents. #ygkc ^TV
11:13 PM: Deferral on KCVI heritage designation by Hector until after PARC completes passes. #ygkc ^TV
11:15 PM: Clarification amendment on item 9 proposed by Counc Hector. We’re not going to make it through the agenda. #ygkc ^TV
11:20 PM: Mayor: I don’t understand why Counc Glover doesn’t want more heritage designations. #mayorjokes #ygkc ^TV
11:24 PM: Mayor jokes that he has a CD: How to make your point in 30 seconds or less. Going to make a cpy for each councillor. #ygkc ^TV
11:25 PM: After all of that, item 9 amendment loses. Motion carries. #ygkc ^TV
11:26 PM: Report 55 is deferred. Again. #ygkc ^TV
11:27 PM: Mayor: I thought this whole meeting would be speedy. #mayorjokes #ygkc ^TV
11:28 PM: Report 56, 57 and 58 all deferred. As are all information reports. #ygkc ^TV
11:29 PM: Misc business items pass (Clerk advised they were time sensitive). #ygkc ^TV
11:30 PM: Minutes confirmed. Bylaws up.. #ygkc ^TV
11:33 PM: Bylaws – after some separation mess – pass. We are out of here. 11:32pm. #ygkc ^TV

Thanks to reneilet for today’s original photo.

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