Hall Monitor: Representative Cartography

Kingston City Council Meetings, #ygkcWhile April’s meetings are a little off from our regular schedule, our council and city staff took to Council Chambers last night for our regular meeting, sort  of; and as usual, the agenda and addeds are available on the city website.

I suppose I’ll get the easy part over with first. Our meeting began with a quick presentation to the winner of the ‘As Mayor I would’ contest, followed by a number of delegations and briefings on a variety of agenda items and respective Q&A. All told, we had four delegations and 2 briefings before actually getting to the first report, which we got to around 9:21pm. Our first report saw the passing to allow a Pro Shop at the Invista Centre, saw Potter St renamed to Holden St and a handful of By-Law Enforcement Officer changes and appointments.

The Social YGK

We then got into the next item, the electoral district reform, which started with another briefing and Q&A before debate. Staff had prepared three maps: “Revised Option 4” (Indicated by staff as the preferred option), “revised option 3A” (Which they indicated was the next best option and “Option 1”, which was their third pick, though it was the staff’s first pick in the fall. Initially, a set of maps had come to council in November, but council had asked staff to try again so that they could attempt to capture post-secondary school students in the data, which is where most of last night’s debate landed. I’m going to let the tweets speak for who said what about the numbers. After much debate – and a motion to extend to the end of this item – council opted for staff’s third pick, ‘Option 1’ as it’s choice [7-6, Downes, Glover, Hutchison, Neill, Osanic, Schell opposed] – though this will need to be finalized later this week, needs a third reading and has an appeals window to clear before it’s set in stone. I’d encourage you to take a look at Report 13-144 to see the new map.

And then… the meeting was, though not without some debate on procedure, recessed.  A special meeting of council will be on Thursday to wrap it all up since we ran out of time. Again. I’m not likely going to be there, sadly.

Our full tweet stream is below. The next regular meeting will be April 23rd. A programming note, too: Council’s strategic planning sessions will be held on April 29th and 30th, off-site, at St. Lawrence College. Historically, I’ve been at these meetings, and have every intention of being there again – but SLC’s wi-fi was iffy when we were there on the road trip, so I may not be able to stream it.

  • 7:10 PM: Getting set up at City Hall. The meeting should start around 7:30. #ygkc ^TV
  • 7:26 PM: Full house tonight, and the overflow room in Memorial Hall is wide open. Busy, busy night ahead. #ygkc ^TV
  • 7:32 PM: The fancy screen tells me all councillors are here. We’re just awaiting @MayorOfKingston. #ygkc ^TV
  • 7:33 PM: Away we go. 7:32pmn start. #ygkc ^TV
  • 7:34 PM: @MayorOfKingston reminds us that there is a screen in Memorial Hall airing council. #ygkc ^TV
  • 7:37 PM: We open with a presentation from @MayorOfKingston to Quinton Bradshaw, winner of the ‘As Mayor I Would’ challenge. #ygkc ^TV
  • 7:39 PM: Bradshaw says that current by-laws and regulations don’t allow the city to become Canada’s Most Sustainable City. #ygkc ^TV
  • 7:39 PM: On transportation, Bradshaw suggests an overhauled transit system and a city-wide bike-sharing program. #ygkc ^TV
  • 7:40 PM: Bradshaw says that downtown has community, but other areas lack: Suggests community cntrs with all-age programming and gardens. #ygkc ^TV
  • 7:41 PM: @MayorOfKingston comments that he is calculating when she’d be 18 – fearful of a mayoralty opponent. #mayorjokes #ygkc ^TV
  • 7:42 PM: We move into the first of three delegations, first on Belle Park fees. #ygkc ^TV
  • 7:44 PM: We’re hearing from Jacques Menard, of Friends of Belle Park. Hearing that this isn’t the first time Belle Park has been discussed. #ygkc ^TV
  • 7:44 PM: Pardon the flashes on the stream tonight, lots of photogs in the room. #ygkc ^TV
  • 7:45 PM: In ’04, it was said the 100k/yr was being set aside for the Park – never materialized. Would like to see that money. #ygkc ^TV
  • 7:47 PM: Menard displays numbers from London, ON, Kingston, the province average and the country. #ygkc ^TV
  • 7:48 PM: @MayorOfKingston asks staff about Menard’s claims that money was moved from one project to another for appearance. Staff says no. #ygkc ^TV
  • 7:50 PM: Coun. Osanic asks about the reference to “existing resources”, wants clarification that it is or isn’t staff time. #ygkc ^TV
  • 7:50 PM: Menard says that it’s based on their own current staff time and money already in use at the park. #ygkc ^TV
  • 7:51 PM: We get confirmation from Menard to Coun. Osanic about 10, 20 and 30-round passes. They’d be new if approved tonight. #ygkc ^TV
  • 7:52 PM: Menard confirms to @JimNeill3 that the 100k referenced was an old council; says it would have put off the problems. #ygkc ^TV
  • 7:53 PM: Coun. Hutchison asks about plans to increase memberships. Menard says theme nights and events are already planned. #ygkc ^TV
  • 7:55 PM: @MayorOfKingston asks Menard if his group is happy with proposed fees. Menard says his group had initially suggested higher. #ygkc ^TV
  • 7:56 PM: Next is Helen Chadwick, chair of the LDSB, speaking on the electoral district changes. #ygkc ^TV
  • 7:57 PM: Chadwick explains that the Trustees are municipal politicians, elected ever 4 years, and governed by the same acts as council. #ygkc ^TV
  • 7:58 PM: Chadwick says the trustees are asking for ‘Option 1’ as the best option, followed by 3A based on schools locations. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:00 PM: Chadwick explains that she’ll be leaving for another commitment after questions. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:01 PM: Coun. Glover asks Chadwick about if ‘Option 4’ is selected, as rec’d, the board could work through it. #ygkc ^TV|
  • 8:01 PM: Chadwick says yes, they could work around it, but it presents the greatest challenge. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:04 PM: @JimNeill3 asks about how alignments and the PARC tie. Chadwick says she’s here only for the district realignment. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:05 PM: Our last delegation is Natalie Mehra, of the Ontario Health Coalition, speaking on the P3 motion tonight. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:10 PM: Mehra speaking with a lot of data from England and the NHS about P3 hospitals. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:12 PM: Mehra, responding to Coun. Downes, that on 4 billion+ dollars of projects, numbers are still redacted. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:16 PM: @JimNeill3 asking about how Infrastructure Ontario can guarantee profits, when hospitals generally run a deficit. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:16 PM: Mehra says that they would have a number of other profit streams, including sale after the 30-year construction term is covered. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:20 PM: Mehra says that in a P3 deal, it would be the contract that governs the hospital. Severely limits options during tough times. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:23 PM: Coun. Hutchison asking Mehra to clarify how risk is being used in Ontario. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:24 PM: Mehra says that the Auditor General looked at the Brampton Project and found $500 million is risk transfer errors.
  • 8:32 PM: Yes, my Coun. Hutchison question referenced about risk was Glover. Thanks @robert_kiley and @AMS_MAC. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:32 PM: @robert_kiley @AMS_MAC Thanks – I use keyboard shortcuts for names. Slipped. Much appreciated. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:33 PM: We moved the a Briefing from Ross Sutherland on the P3 proposal. Briefings are given 10-minutes instead of 5. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:35 PM: Sutherland says P3 hospitals cost more. U of T study showed 16% on average. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:39 PM: Sutherland says that it’s not really possible to write a 30-year plan; compares to what healthcare was like 30 years ago. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:42 PM: Coun. Downes asks about ownership after 30 years. Sutherland says it reverts to public ownership, but not likely in great shape. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:44 PM: Coun. Downes asks about the province selling bonds; Sutherland suggests he try for Ontario Finance Minister. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:46 PM: Coun. Downes asking if this has become an ideological battle with no middle ground. Sutherland doesn’t believe it is. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:52 PM: I know there are audio issues with the podium mics on stream, and I’m sorry for it. The city is feeding me the audio. :-( #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:55 PM: @MayorOfKingston says that @JimNeill3 wants to add someone, reminds him that it should have been done during addeds. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:58 PM: Troy Sherman, @AMS_MAC has been approved (9-4 SB KG DH and JS opposed) and he takes the podium for a delegation. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:59 PM: Sherman says that voting for one of the original options (3A or 1) would reduce effective representation of students. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:00 PM: Sherman says that Town-Gown relations have been getting better in recent years, and that a vote for 3A or 1 would hinder that. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:01 PM: Coun. Glover asking about the AMS plans if anything but Option 4 is selected. Sherman speaks only to Option 1. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:01 PM: … says that the AMS would be forced to reconsider their work in Town-Gown relations. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:03 PM: @BrianReitzel asks Shermanif she’s aware that students can vote in #ygk and if he knows how students can register. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:05 PM: @JimNeill3 asking about if Sherman recalls which opts were being presented at public meetings. Option 1 was the leader before 4. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:06 PM: Coun. George asks Sherman if he feels students get appropriate representation now. Sherman says they have 4 councillors now. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:07 PM: Proposed Option 1 would limit that to 3. Coun. George asks if Sherman is aware that all councillors can and would work with AMS. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:08 PM: @MayorOfKingston asks if Sherman knows of other cities adopting the model the AMS is suggesting. He says no, but they often lead. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:08 PM: @MayorOfKingston says that the redistricting is based on electorate; students aren’t registering, so they aren’t being captured. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:09 PM: @MayorOfKingston asks if Sherman thinks this would be incentive to vote. Sherman says he isn’t sure… #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:09 PM: … but suggests that the other options would disenfranchise them from voting. All three student govt’s in agreement on this. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:11 PM: Coun. Downes calls a pt of order; says he’s confused about how to proceed as a councilor. Clarifies they can talk to the clerk. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:11 PM: @MayorOfKingston says that the Clerk is a resource, but he chairs. Mayor says it’s not a pt of order, suggests a call tmrw. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:12 PM: Pat Carrol, mgr of taxation and revenue for the city up for a briefing next. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:18 PM: We move from Briefings to a petition being presented from Coun. Osanic with 300+ sigs asking for a new parkland by-law. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:19 PM: We move to a motion of congratulations and a motion of condolences before getting into reports. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:21 PM: We open with CAO report 55, all except item D, which passes unanimously. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:23 PM: A few quick questions from Coun. Osanic about numbers from pumping stations ahead of the vote on item (d). #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:24 PM: It carries; we’re into report 56, the electoral boundaries. We open with a briefing from the Clerk and Solicitor. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:26 PM: Bolognone is explaining the history of this item right now, explaining timelines and why/and how information was gathered. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:28 PM: Remember, you can follow the agenda (and this report, 13-144) at http://t.co/ozCQyP1Wkm #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:29 PM: Bolognone turns the podium to George Wallace, Senior Special Projects Manager, to outline the options. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:30 PM: Common to all 3: New Countryside/12 lines. 4 and 5 do not change at all. Mostly major roads used. Most associations remain intact. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:31 PM: Wallace says all three are sustainable through the 2013 election. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:32 PM: Option 4 is the preferred option going into the vote. It keeps Sydenham intact; but it’s not supported by the LDSB. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:34 PM: 3A is the preferred alt. to 4. This alternate does split off the Sydenham triangle, though. Schoo trustees call this acceptable. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:35 PM: ‘Option 1’ was the former preferred option in the fall. It’s coming forward as the non-post-secondary-student option. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:35 PM: Option 1 was the preferred option from school trustees. So staff order here is 4, 3A, 1. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:37 PM: Wallace says the key data should be population, but that electors could be lower in districts with many students. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:37 PM: … adds, too, that these aren’t permanent and the next review will be held starting in 2020. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:38 PM: @MayorOfKingston says that the 10 minutes are up, but grants the Clerk 30-seconds for a final remark on appeals. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:39 PM: Clerk: “That concludes our brief briefing”, @MayorOfKingston “That concludes your briefing… not sure about brief” #mayorjokes #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:40 PM: Coun. Downes asks about the input from Watson and Assoc. Wallace says they say all three are plausible. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:42 PM: Question about running the boundary line directly up Johnson. Wallace says that it would be within the plans for the review. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:45 PM: @DorothyAHector asking about if other municipalities use non-permanent. Wallace says only two adjust for post-secondary students. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:47 PM: @JimNeill3 asking about the possibility of an OMB challenge on adoption Option 1. Linscott says that all 3 meet all criteria. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:51 PM: Wallace confirms to @JimNeill3 that all 6 options at the time were all present at all 4 public meetings. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:53 PM: Wallace tells @JimNeill3 that they felt that changes were minor enough and changes in these three were based on public feedback… #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:53 PM: … so they didn’t feel another meeting was required. Timeline would make it tough, too, to allow another mtg and OMB appeal time. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:56 PM: Coun. Paterson asking about how student numbers were included, when it was said that to include them would be a “heoric” effort. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:58 PM: Staff got postal codes from the schools, and also got residence numbers from the school. SLC students were all across city. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:59 PM: Staff says that they only got appx 5k off-site students from Queens. Supplemented with a 2008 Queen’s study. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:00 PM: Wallace confirms to Coun. Paterson that census data would be far more accurate than the estimates they came up with. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:02 PM: @councillorberg asks about the other communities (Guelph and Windsor) using student data. Kingston didn’t replicate them. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:04 PM: @MayorOfKingston asks Wallace if he knows of students at the mtgs. Wallace says he thinks so, doesn’t recall one IDing as such #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:05 PM: Wallace adds to a follow-up from @MayorOfKingston that the AMS didn’t appear at any meetings. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:06 PM: @MayorOfKingston asks about if students had reg’d to vote. Had they, then they would have been factored into Option 1. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:06 PM: We move into the item itself. We start with an amendment from @BrianReitzel. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:07 PM: @BrianReitzel changes the motion to be a vote on option 1 instead of option 4. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:09 PM: @BrianReitzel says that the city already has great Town-Gown relations, and already get fair representation. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:10 PM: @BrianReitzel says that Option 1 covers everything they are trying to accomplish with this review. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:11 PM: Coun. Schell says that she won’t be supporting the amendment. Says that representation shouldn’t be decided based on who votes. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:12 PM: Coun. Schell says she was happy to see Option 4 added. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:13 PM: Coun. Glover makes comment that the @QueensU principal and vice-principals aren’t here tonight. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:15 PM: Coun. Glover says that Option 1 brings a high chance of an OMB challenge; which would be costly and time consuming. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:16 PM: Coun. Glover “pleased to be on record” to not support Option 1. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:16 PM: @DorothyAHector takes the chair as @MayorOfKingston steps out for a minute and fights with the stopwatch. Uses her own timing. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:18 PM: Coun. Paterson says that there are a large number of people who can’t vote. Adds that students can attach themselves to the city. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:19 PM: Coun. Paterson says that we should have moved past saying that the schools are an issue of these few councillors; supports Opt 1. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:20 PM: @JimNeill3 says he’s frustrated; Says that council should be concerned about all constituents, voter or not. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:21 PM: @JimNeill3 says that his reading of OMB hearings are based on constituent counts. Says OMB won’t turn blind eye to number diffs. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:25 PM: @MayorOfKingston isn’t going to weigh into the debate, he says; clarifies that he voted in favour of staff presenting offers. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:26 PM: @MayorOfKingston says that he doesn’t like the use of threats. Watson & Assoc. says that all three would be defensible. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:27 PM: @DorothyAHector wants to clarify the discussion: Says it’s about lines on a map, not the right to vote. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:28 PM: @DorothyAHector says she was absent for the last debate; followed the tweets. Discussed student voting while out of town. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:30 PM: @DorothyAHector is in support of Option 1. She has put that to her constituents, who haven’t spoken against and supported her. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:34 PM: Coun. Hutchison is concerned that this won’t count “real live people” who have the right to vote. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:35 PM: Coun. Downes says that they should give all due consideration to students, even when it’s drawing lines on a map. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:37 PM: Coun. Downes says that city should be bending over backwards to infuse students with the value that they are important. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:38 PM: Coun. Downes says that it’s the people at Queens and RMC who will be our future leaders; doesn’t care about the OMB risks. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:44 PM: Coun. George says that Kingston’s fortunate to have the schools; we should be doing everything we can to encourage them to stay. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:45 PM: … adds that he doesn’t like that some are suggesting that specific votes show that you don’t support the students. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:47 PM: Popcorn still being munched as we pass 10:45pm. We get the request for a motion to extend. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:47 PM: @MayorOfKingston says he’ll be calling a special meeting on Thu if they don’t wrap tonight. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:49 PM: @BrianReitzel asks to conclude this item; @MayorOfKingston adds time-snesitive. @DorothyAHector asks to speak. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:50 PM: Vote to finish this item passes 10-3, Downes, Glover and Neill opposed. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:51 PM: So, we’ll wrap up tonight’s meeting with this item and time sensitive. We’ll finish it up on Thursday night. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:53 PM: Coun. Scott reading statements from his constituents. Coun. Downes calls a pt of personal priv. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:53 PM: Coun. Downes attempted to call a motion to adjourn, but @MayorOfKingston ruled him out of order. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:55 PM: @MayorOfKingston says that Downes was out of order because of a different section of the same by-law. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:56 PM: @MayorOfKingston repeatedly rules Coun. Downes out of order; @JimNeill3 calls a point of order now. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:57 PM: @MayorOfKingston clarifies that he is the one who gets to interpret the by-law; councillors can challenge him. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:58 PM: Amendment vote to bring in Option 1 instead of 4, passes 7-6, Downes, Glover, Hutchison, Neill, Osanic, Schell opposed. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:00 PM: Vote on the districts, Option 1 map, passes 7-6, Downes, Glover, Hutchison, Neill, Osanic, Schell opposed. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:00 PM: We move into the time sensitive items, after a quick debate from @JimNeill3 on if they’re time sensitive to Thursday. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:02 PM: First will grant KEDCO a briefing at the strategic planning sessions, which passes unanimously. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:03 PM: Sorry – that was the second. First was a time extension, which passes. Motion to recess until Thursday up now. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:04 PM: Recess carries 12-1; Downes was the lone opposed… Who wanted to adjourn earlier. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:05 PM: Thanks for following along. We’ll have a summary tomorrow… Or at least, we’ll summarize what we can. #ygkc ^TV

Thanks to reneilet for today’s original photo.

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