Hall Monitor: Check

Kingston City Council Meetings, #ygkcIn the past, I’ve shared a number of lessons about council-watching with you: Never predict the length of a meeting. Never count on a sure vote. Never expect council whose swaying one way to vote that way. Last night, we learned another, though it’s one we’ve learned a few times over now: Never expect the agenda to be completed. That’s what we got last night as council met for meeting 23-2012. As always, the city has posted the agenda and addeds to their website.

A handful of things took place before we got to the main event. We heard from a coalition wanting money for dentures for people on OntarioWorks and from Trees Ontario about a tree-planting program. The city accepted the release of the lease of the Red Cross building behind the courthouse. We bought a fire truck. And the technology improvements mentioned and displayed at the special meeting of council were approved. I’m not going to dwell on any of it, though. Last night was the casino vote – and after a delegation comprised of a number of members of various organizations, the debate on the casino was well-set to run long. Long enough, in fact, that while the meeting was extended to allow it to be voted upon, the rest of the agenda was bumped.

I’ll cut to the chase: Kingston City Council has voted in favour of telling the OLG that they are interested, in principle, of being a host community for a new gaming facility so long as it isn’t located downtown. The vote was 7-5. Councillors Sandy Berg, Kevin George, Dorothy Hector, Lisa Osanic, Brian Reitzel, Jeff Scott and Mayor Mark Gerretsen voted in favour. Councillors Rick Downes, Bill Glover, Rob Hutchison, Jim Neill and Bryan Paterson voted against. Councillor Liz Schell did not vote – her son works for OLG so she has not been involved in the casino debate.

Debate on all facets of the item were brought forward – from the social costs to the income potential to the validity of the surveys conducted. An attempt to defer the whole thing to November – and even December – was tried. There was discussion about where else it could and couldn’t be located, too – including talk of minimum distance to schools. There was something that began to resemble a filibuster. Heck, one councillor (Kevin George) even asked for the question to be called ahead of everyone getting the chance to speak. It was a long, dramatic, question-and-answer filled debate that ended on a prepared statement from the Mayor supporting a move to the next step. It was also a long, long night.

I think it’s important to remember that the motion and vote, as presented and approved, doesn’t mean we’re getting a casino – it simply allows Kingston to stay on the list of potential communities. This was never a “Yes or no” vote – but a “Maybe or no” vote – and the OLG has repeatedly said they won’t move in where they aren’t welcome. While council’s vote will indicate to the OLG that we’re interested, the lack of a developer, enough of a fuss from the residents down the highway, zoning considerations and processes or even a later vote from council can all hamper this development. We aren’t getting a casino – we’re just not not getting one.

The full tweet stream is below. Council will be meeting at some point to wrap up tonight’s agenda – we’ll try to be there. The next scheduled meeting is October 16th.

  • 7:03 PM: Getting all set up. Expecting a full house tonight. #badpuns #ygkc ^TV
  • 7:20 PM: Stream is up and running – we should be staring in about ten minutes. http://t.co/8diLs9B8 #ygkc ^TV
  • 7:35 PM: Standing room only in chambers; Mem. hall’s closed right now. Pretty sure they’re all here for the exciting fire truck purchase. #ygkc ^TV
  • 7:40 PM: Just waiting on @MayorOfKingston to get this evening’s events started. #ygkc ^TV
  • 7:43 PM: DING DING!! #ygkc ^TV
  • 7:45 PM: We open with comments from @MayorOfKingston joking about the bet on the @KingstonFronts game from not long ago. #ygkc ^TV
  • 7:45 PM: Overflow room in Memorial Hall, btw, is open if you’re planning on making the trek down. #ygkc ^TV
  • 7:47 PM: Out of the closed meeting with a mouthfull of a report from the deputy clerk and a round of applause. #ygkc ^TV
  • 7:51 PM: Addeds item is asking for 10 minutes to speak instead of 5; @MayorOfKingston comments that he’s not in favour of a tim extension. #ygkc ^TV
  • 7:52 PM: Comment from item mover, Coun. Downes, that the item was a briefing; then was changed today by clerk’s office to a delegation. #ygkc ^TV
  • 7:54 PM: And a brief meeting with the clerk at the mayor’s desk. #ygkc ^TV
  • 7:55 PM: Item to extend to 10 minutes fails. Coun. Downes is now asking the item to go in as a briefing now instead of a delegation. #ygkc ^TV
  • 7:56 PM: Item moves to briefings – so it gets it’s 10 minutes. Addeds are ruled in. #ygkc ^TV
  • 7:59 PM: We’re into delegations; first one is regarding the #ygkcasino. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:02 PM: Delegation is commenting on the validity of some of the studies. Is encouraging #ygkc to vote no for a casino tonight. ^TV
  • 8:03 PM: The delegation is a mix of people; Downtown BIA, Sydenham District Assoc. McBurney Park Assoc. and Friends of Inner Harbour. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:04 PM: The group is trying to “Protect Kingston from unsavoury aspects of gambling” – drugs and prostitution. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:05 PM: McBurney Park Assoc survey showed 94% of people surveyed (194) said no to a casino. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:05 PM: Delegation is cut at it’s five-minutes before all speak; into Q&A. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:06 PM: Question from Coun. Glover to BIA: What about out near the 401? BIA doesn’t want one in the city at all. Fear of money drain. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:09 PM: BIA rep is comparing the job creation at a casino to smaller businesses. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:11 PM: Coun. Glover asking about the Sydenham DA’s procedure. Peter Stroud says discussion was less than 10 mins before vote. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:13 PM: Stroud says problems like drugs and prostitution happen with casino winnings – prize money + problem spenders. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:14 PM: Stroud also says an escort service opened in Ganonoque when the casino did. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:17 PM: @JimNeill3 asking about the BIA’s peer review plans of the KEDCO impact analysis; Doug Ritchie says it would be avail in abt 3 wk #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:20 PM: We’re streaming the #ygkc meeting – including discussion and the vote on #ygkcasino. Follow along at http://t.co/8diLs9B8
  • 8:22 PM: Ritchie (in response to @JimNeill3) is pointing to studies showing that casinos in cities are funded by local money. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:23 PM: Coun. Downes asking Ritchie about how long it’s taken the Downtown BIA to be considered one of the best. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:24 PM: Ritchie says the revitalization started in the late 70s. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:25 PM: Ritchie: The downtown BIA started being recognized for it’s achievements about 6 years ago. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:27 PM: Coun. Downes asking about businesses that rely on discretionary spending. Ritchie says it’s about 2/3rds of the footage. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:27 PM: From a Q from @MayorOfKingston: Ritchie says BIA did not survey; communicated by email and meetings. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:29 PM: @MayorOfKingston asking Stroud where the drugs and prostitution theme came from. Stroud says it’s from his asking residents. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:31 PM: Stroud answering question from @MayorOfKingston; that most of the drugs/prostitution is likey a little more underground. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:32 PM: @BrianReitzel asking about how many tourists #ygk gets – Ritchie says he can’t answer that. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:33 PM: Ritchie on tourists: Concern will be the number of casinos. Local market will likely be the primary source. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:35 PM: Ritchie: Tourists visiting the city would be here for other reasons; not coming to town for the casino. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:35 PM: Next up, Chamber of Commerce on the #ygkcasino. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:38 PM: Most of the chamber’s respondents live and run businesses in the rest. 69% felt well informed about #ygkcasino issue. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:40 PM: Chamber of Commerce says that in all 6 locations presented, more people were opposed to a casino. 2/3rds want a conv. ctr though. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:42 PM: Chamber making it clear that they do not have a position. Just here reporting the results of the survey. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:43 PM: @MayorOfKingston points out that Coun. Osanic asked three questions then asked about responses in favour. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:44 PM: Chamber: 64% were in favour of moving to the next step. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:46 PM: Coun. Downes asking about the survey procedure. Chamber confirms that this was done as an informal survey with no review. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:48 PM: Chamber used volunteers from #SIFE to do survey at #MegaMixer; can’t comment on the overall mood of respondents beyond results. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:48 PM: Coun. Hutchison asking about background info. Chamber linked to BIA study, City’s info page and OLG’s info page. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:49 PM: We’re heading into briefings. These are 10 minutes each. First is about the 50 million tree program. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:51 PM: A healthy tree ecosystem is 30% coverage; some areas of Ontario are as low as 5%. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:52 PM: Trees Ontario has helped plant 13 million trees; will plant appx 3.2million next year. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:52 PM: Prov. gov’t goal is 50 million trees by 2025. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:55 PM: For a landowner to be eligible, they need 2.5 acres of mostly open space. 1500-2200 seedlings planted; stay for 15yrs. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:57 PM: Landowner spends $0.15-$0.20/tree to have trees planted. #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:57 PM: First question from “Council tree expert”, Coun. Osanic — @MayorOfKingston #mayorjokes #ygkc ^TV
  • 8:58 PM: Coun. Osanic asking about tree species w/ this year’s drought. Speaker says plans don’t change based on a single summer. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:01 PM: We’re into the next briefing – the Dental Coalition about the potential spending on dentures via Ontario Works. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:01 PM: Looks like the dental coalition brought 8 or so people with them. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:03 PM: Speaker now is on social assistance; 27 single mom of 2. Having a hard time making a first impression because of her teeth. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:05 PM: Coalition: Dental isn’t covered through Ontario; partially covered through OntarioWorks, but dentures are too costly for most. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:07 PM: The ask is for a 100k fund for dentures; Coalition feels that the fund would last several years. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:09 PM: Coun. Downes tries to ask a question of a gallery member about job difficulties due to teeth; she takes the podium #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:09 PM: She says that some 75% are on OW; these people wouldn’t smile – employers wouldn’t even take subsidies to hire these people. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:11 PM: @C_Vilela It ties to a download from the province. They’re trimming some OW coverage and are asking municipalities to pick up the slack. ^TV
  • 9:12 PM: @C_Vilela A denture program wasn’t specifically mentioned by the province. Came forward initially from Coun. Downes.
  • 9:13 PM: RT @JamieMasse Holy cow, #ygkc is trending number 7 again – here’s the pic to prove it http://t.co/x02qAlfb
  • 9:14 PM: Coun. Downes asking about the perception that people have bad teeth through their own fault. ANOTHER gallery member steps up. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:16 PM: Question from @BrianReitzel about the basic human rights of denying employment based on teeth. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:18 PM: Speaker (a past employment councillor) says that most employers wouldn’t specify the teeth; hard to prove. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:20 PM: Coun. Osanic asking about dentists and potential discounts. Speaker says that some dentists do reduce rates for OW patients. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:23 PM: @councillorberg asking about other sources of funding; speaker says they haven’t yet looked into other sources. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:24 PM: @MayorOfKingston has heard tthat the argument to create this fund is that it’s a local investment; how do we verify residency? #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:25 PM: @coffeeco Yes, the #ygkcasino vote to stay on the “consider” list is on the agenda tonight.
  • 9:26 PM: Speaker says that the program would likely gain a lot of loyalty. Can’t really stop people from leaving. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:28 PM: Coun. Hutchison asks about this taking people off OW, program is only for OW. Speaker says that’s exactly what prgm is for. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:30 PM: We don’t have any petitions. Into emotional items. Congrats to the city treasurer on a recent award. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:31 PM: Also extends sympathies to an HR staffer on the passing of her grandmother; and best wishes for recovery to Mayor of Brockville. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:32 PM: Most of report 105 clears; city accepts surrender of Red Cross bldg, buys a fire truck and renews the Brew Pub’s parking space. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:33 PM: Council tech upgraades up. Question from Coun. Glover about the potential hire of new employees for the new tech. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:34 PM: Staff: A member of the clerk’s staff would be on-hand for council meetings. Follow-up question on committee meetings. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:35 PM: Staff: No new staff planned; existing clerk’s staff is being trained.
  • 9:37 PM: Coun. Glover asks about which responsibilities fall where. Clerk confirms processes will be in place before system goes live. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:38 PM: Coun. Glover argues that technology improves accessibility; but not transparency or accountability. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:40 PM: Added comment frm @MayorOfKingston defending the Clerk’s office from comments of Coun. Glover about the briefing/delegation mixup. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:41 PM: @councillorberg asking about digital and access to Cogeco. Staff: We will be able to provide it through the web or through VOD. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:41 PM: Staff: There has been some demand for some access to content that is not currently being offeredd by Cogeco. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:43 PM: @DorothyAHector asking about cost savings. Staff says the savings would be substantial due to paper/toner alone. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:44 PM: @DorothyAHector comments about the full blue boxes for council papers. Coun. Scott heard that residents can’t get cogeco. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:44 PM: Coun. Scott says some residents don’t have high speed either. Staff says they haven’t fully investigated options. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:45 PM: Item for council upgrades passed. We’re into the #ygkcasino item. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:46 PM: @MayorOfKingston clarifies that staff isn’t actually recommending #ygkcasino; it’s coming to council as a “consider” item. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:47 PM: #ygkcasino item moved by @BrianReitzel, seconded by Coun. George. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:48 PM: Amendment (Coun. George/Coun. Paterson) to keep the casino out of the central business area. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:49 PM: Coun. Osanic says she saw clearly that respondents said “not in the downtown”. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:51 PM: Coun. Osanic suggesting lots of alternate sites for #ygkcasino – likes the McAdoo’s lane for the horse race potential. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:52 PM: Coun. Downes: “I don’t want a casino n my district”; says this is not a NIMBY issue; it’s a Not In My City issue. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:53 PM: Coun. George siding with Osanic; has always not beein in favour of #ygkcasino downtown. Wants a convention centre. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:54 PM: Coun. George: Heard from 5 of appx 15k residents opposed; has had many in support. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:55 PM: Coun. George: We always hear from the same people opposed to change. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:56 PM: @JimNeill3 takes the chair so that @MayorOfKingston can speak. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:57 PM: OLG said at a meeting that they would take additions and conditions. OLG confirmed yesterday that the city in process. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:57 PM: Letter from OLG: This is the first step; a starting point; it’s not a final or binding agreement. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:59 PM: Coun. Glover says he didn’t read the same into the letter from the OLG. Agreeing with Coun. Downes’ points, but voting FOR amend. #ygkc ^TV
  • 9:59 PM: Coun. Glover: Voting in favour of amendment because #ygk will look less attractive. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:02 PM: Coun. Hutchison: Doesn’t want it downtown; if it is in the city, will affect everywhere. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:04 PM: Coun. Paterson: #ygcasino is likely most divisive issue. All agree, though, that a casino should not be downtown. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:05 PM: Coun. George and Coun. Paterson (Move/2nd) don’t agree on main issue; but agree on not on downtown. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:08 PM: @JimNeill3 doesnt want a casino downtown; nor does he want one in the city at all. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:09 PM: @councillorberg doesn’t want a casino downtown. Adds that OLG monies already come to city via Trillium Fund and hospitals. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:09 PM: @MayorOfKingston makes sure @councillorberg stays on amendment. She wraps up her statement in support of amendment. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:10 PM: Coun. Paterson: “I think I’m the only person in the world who wants a casino downtown”. Has 36k of the 401 in district. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:11 PM: On downtown amendment: Result: Pass 10-2 | REQ: RD | Yea: SB, KG, MG, BG, DH, RH, LO, BP, BR, JS | Nay: RD, JN #rv #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:12 PM: Back to the main item. @BrianReitzel: Casinos are very well policed. Kids, though, play games at restaurants. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:13 PM: Thank you, yes it was. #ygkc ^TV RT @amandajhudson_ @kingstonist That was Scott, not Paterson #ygkc
  • 10:14 PM: @BrianReitzel: Consider contraband alcohol and tobacco where organized crime benefits. Uses marijuana as gaming comparison. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:15 PM: @BrianReitzel Regardless of casino vote; wants to push to a 2.5% tax increase instead of 3.5%. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:16 PM: Coun. Hutchison offering an amendment that any casino be built within urban growth boundary. 2nd: @JimNeill3. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:17 PM: Quote correction: “I think I’m the only person in the world who wants a casino downtown” was Coun. Scott. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:17 PM: Coun. Hutchison: Building it outside of the urban growth boundary would require infrastructure costs. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:18 PM: @MayorOfKingston clarifies that a request of this nature would be possible; but difficult. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:19 PM: Coun. Osanic opposing the amendment; Mcadoos lane is outside boundary. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:19 PM: Coun. Scott not in favour of the item; lots of options outside of boundary that stand alone. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:20 PM: Coun. Glover says Coun. Osanic’s argument doesn’t work due to people’s suggestion of KP as a site. It has obstacles. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:21 PM: Coun. Glover: Not supporting this amendment is ignoring the official plan. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:22 PM: Coun. Downes not supporting the amendment. Says this is siloing of people so that council can justify a “yes” #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:24 PM: Coun. Downes: Respects Coun. Hutchison’s research. Not in favour of this or a casino at all. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:24 PM: @JimNeill3: voted against it downtown; will likely vote for this one as it’s based on an official plan. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:26 PM: @MayorOfKingston is confused by comments and wording. Doesn’t want casino near people; but wants within growth area. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:27 PM: @MayorOfKingston doesn’t see the rational for it being limited to the growth area; voting against amendment. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:30 PM: Coun. George: Proximity isn’t an issue; developer would need to account for zoning and infastructure costs. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:31 PM: Coun. George not supporting the amendment. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:32 PM: Coun. Hutchison: Against the main motion; amendment is trying to make a bad motion a little better. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:35 PM: Growth area amendment: Result: Lost 9-3 | REQ: MG | Yea: BG, RH, JN | Nay: SB, RD, KG, MG, DH, LO, BP, BR, JS #rv #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:36 PM: Coun. Hutchison amendment: Not within 2000ft of a school; Coun. Downes steps out on conflict. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:37 PM: Coun. Hutchison: Kinds are already exposed to some gambling; a newar-by casino would make this worse. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:39 PM: Clerk asking for clarification on definition of a school; and wants distance in metres. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:40 PM: Coun. Hutchison: All schools (Elem, sec, post-sec); distance, I believe, was set to 630m. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:42 PM: Coun. Glover (2nder): OLG wants to expand market to youth; precident from smoking on proximity. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:43 PM: @DorothyAHector asking if this might be better served as part of later zoning. Staff says it’s council’s choice. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:44 PM: @DorothyAHector doesn’t disagree with the principal of the amendment. Can’t decide without a map to see distances.
  • 10:45 PM: … offers to move the item with planning committee. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:47 PM: Extension to finish the agenda is tabled. Fails. Item to extend for the #ygkcasino item tabled by @DorothyAHector #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:49 PM: @VieiraFlyTrap @DanielleinYGK @CKWS_Hutch I think it’s the AC trying to turn on.
  • 10:50 PM: So; meeting will complete this item, then we’ll defer the rest. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:51 PM: @BrianReitzel felt that location near school would be done in zoning or planning committee. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:52 PM: Coun. Scott: Most schools are in residential area; but we have a few near the 401. Not sure about distance amt. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:53 PM: @JimNeill3 this item is reasonable; casino is a one-off, doesn’t need a specific zoning by-law. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:54 PM: @MayorOfKingston the amendment is reasonable; separating the types of schools for voting. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:55 PM: Coun. Paterson clarifies that the school near the 401 is a high school. #ygkc ^TV
  • 10:57 PM: Coun. Hutchison says he bundled all schools based on crime potential; not fake ID risks. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:01 PM: Schools Item defeated. Back to Coun. Hutchison on the main motion. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:03 PM: Coun. Hutchison citing reports over 20yrs that show crime increases in counties with casinos. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:05 PM: Deferral movement from Coun. Hutchison. To come back to council to second meeting of Nov for additional reports. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:06 PM: Seconded by @JimNeill3; @MayorOfKingston comments about the group doing the peer review. Reviewer is already opposed. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:07 PM: Debate between @JimNeill3 and @MayorOfKingston on if his comments are to time or place. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:08 PM: @councillorberg voices objection to time – will be absent for suggested meeting. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:09 PM: Clerk mentions that the 2nd meeting in Nov is at Queen’s. 1st in Dec is proposed. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:10 PM: Suggestion is now first meeting in Nov; @BrianReitzel won’t be there. Motion loses anyway. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:10 PM: Coun. George asks for the question to be called. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:10 PM: Seconded by @councillorberg. Question loses. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:11 PM: Coun. Downes: We should be considering why the OLG is giving money to cities to host casinos. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:12 PM: Side note: Does ANYONE out there know the last time the question was called in this manner? #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:12 PM: Coun. Downes: upset that the OLG seems to think it’s fair to download the problems to a city in exchange for money. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:14 PM: Coun. Downes: Wondering the impact of a Gan closure; will those workers require social services? #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:16 PM: @JimNeill3: Unfortunate that deferral chance was missed. Vast majority of emails are against #ygkcasino. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:18 PM: @JimNeill3 Not sure about the data in some of the reports; stats were provided by OLG. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:18 PM: @CouncilInAction Guess I’ve got a research project ahead of me, eh? ^TV
  • 11:20 PM: Recorded vote requested by @JimNeill3. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:21 PM: Coun. George trying to speak; @MayorOfKingston says he had his chance: Called question, then ceded the floor. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:21 PM: Coun. Osanic in support of the casino; would bring a large number of decent paying jobs. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:23 PM: Coun. Osanic is supporting for the tax base: will help for all of the spending suggested in survey results. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:26 PM: Coun. Scott talking about the abundance of casinos. His citizens see it just as another form of entertainment. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:27 PM: Coun. Scott: 90% of his taxpayers association surveyed. City’s polls in his area are divided. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:28 PM: Coun. Scott commented at the start that he doesn’t like casinos; but his constituents are for it, so he’ll be voting in favour. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:30 PM: Coun. Glover discussing the information from the reports provided to council. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:31 PM: Coun. Glover: Other cities have ear-marked money for a specific purpose; #ygk hasn’t – just looking for extra money. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:33 PM: Coun. Glover: We need to buckle down and get the hard work done. Supporting #ygkcasino would be running away from it. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:33 PM: @DorothyAHector Very divisive issue. Didn’t see anything about the regulatory system for gambling in Ontario. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:35 PM: @DorothyAHector found it tough to find many reports of communities who wished they hadn’t accepted a casino. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:36 PM: @DorothyAHector: “Governments are having a hard time finding money to pay for infrastructure.” #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:37 PM: @DorothyAHector: Some members of the BIA were vocal in favour of a casino downtown. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:38 PM: @DorothyAHector: Can’t see another way to bring in 3mil. Will be supporting it. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:38 PM: Coun. Paterson opens with a thanks to staff. Speaks about the 5% who become addicted to gambling. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:39 PM: Coun. Paterson: This isn’t a bout a #ygkcasion – it’s about a casino in #ygk or 20 minutes down the highway. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:40 PM: Coun. Paterson: Why would an operator close 1000 islands for kingston. A: More money. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:41 PM: Coun. Paterson: Money will come from both visitors, but local money, too. Net gain isn’t clear if it’s local money. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:42 PM: Coun. Paterson: What’s best for OLG is not best for #ygk. Kingston would benefit from a destination casino, not a local one. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:43 PM: Coun. Paterson: I just don’t like the odds; asking council to walk away. Gallery applauds and @MayorOfKingston scolds the gallery. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:44 PM: @councillorberg supports continuing the discussion. Wants this option to stay on the table. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:44 PM: @MayorOfKingston now reading a prepared statement on his position on the #ygkcasino #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:46 PM: @MayorOfKingston: No clear result has been presented based on the numerous surveys done. Community is clearly divided. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:47 PM: @MayorOfKingston making note that all three major provincial political parties have played a role in this question. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:48 PM: @MayorOfKingston Arguing that local profits in other entertainment forms already leave the community. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:49 PM: @MayorOfKingston The debate is if the relocation of Gananoque casino would be a net gain. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:49 PM: @MayorOfKingston The negatives increase would be offset; is prepared to continue discussions. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:50 PM: @BrianReitzel is last to speak as mover. Vote upcoming. Recorded requested by @JimNeill3.
  • 11:54 PM: @BrianReitzel: Casinos are people voluntarily paying taxes. People aren’t being dragged in. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:55 PM: Recorded vote request by @BrianReitzel. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:57 PM: Result: Pass 7-5 | REQ: BR | Yea: SB, KG, MG, DH, LO, BR, JS | Nay: RD, BG, RH, JN, BP #rv #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:57 PM: Kingston City Council votes 7-5 to continue discussions on #ygkcasino; but not in @downtownktown. #ygkc ^TV
  • 11:58 PM: Bylaws done; Adjourn done. 1157. Deferral on all additional items to a later time/place. Will follow-up. #ygkc ^TV

Thanks to reneilet for today’s original photo.


8 thoughts on “Hall Monitor: Check

  • October 3, 2012 at 12:48 pm

    From today's Whig Standard "Mayor Mark Gerretsen said in a prepared statement that it should be up to higher levels of government to determine whether gambling and casinos are morally and socially acceptable." To those most vulnerable of our citizens – isn't it nice to know the Mayors got your back..

  • October 4, 2012 at 8:17 pm

    Gan has had a casino for a decade. Look what it has done for them. Not much. See the hotels and restaurants sprouting around the site? Neither do I. Now it is time to privatize (ie get the mob involved), and the OLG is really keen to get Kingston in on the act. Why?

  • October 5, 2012 at 12:21 pm

    The people of Kingston are going to remain largely divided on the casino, but a comparison with Gananoque is difficult because the community located the casino well outside of town, where there is little opportunity or encouragement for those visiting the casino to walk to any nearby pubs, restaurants, or other entertainment venues. If Kingston does select to have a new casino, it would be wise for them to locate it in an area that may experience some positive economic spin-offs.

    • October 7, 2012 at 2:49 pm

      Check Atlantic City. The casino developments are built to be self contained.

      If even a Super 8 hasn't popped up next to the Thousand Islands casino in ten years, that tells you a lot about the people who go there.

      You can already get there for free from Kingston on a bus. Your lost money goes in to provincial tax revenues. There's no need for Kingston to enter a "race to the bottom" competition with Gan to see who can "win" by getting the least benefit from a privately run development.

      OLG should not be allowed to lobby Kingston city council on this issue.

  • October 7, 2012 at 8:25 am

    The majority of the people that will spend time at the casino are not the type of people interested in taking advantage of what businesses downtown have to offer. At least until a buffet place opens up.

  • October 8, 2012 at 10:45 am

    The casino vote was very disappointing but not surprising. Several members of council have been transfixed by the sums of money being tossed around, that can support Kingston initiatives. The problem is that most of the money that gets spent in a casino will not stay in Kingston. Yes, the City will get some money, but it will also get a host of problems: money displaced from local businesses, people becoming addicted to gambling and other social problems, and a casino just does not fit with a vibrant community such as Kingston. But it's not too late– we have to work hard now to insure that a casino does not happen, despite the intentions of several of our elected "representatives".

  • October 9, 2012 at 5:38 am

    Hmm strange…? I didn't see a comment from the Springers in the meeting…Oh my mistake, you mean they don't own Kingston? Well I'll be a monkey's uncle… Earlier the mayor was trying to get people to vote on whether or not they should hire a consultant to review something about the casino and refused to talk about moral issues or consequences for the community. Looks like he has already made a decision. I don't see the appeal of a casino at all. You waste money when you could be using it to upgrade your life The noise inside is most annoying and I don't understand how people can even cope with that. You waste time on cheap games at least facebook games have a point to them. Oh also I fail to understand how a casino using inefficient amounts of lighting is going to make Kingston the most "Green city" in Canada. No really, turn on Kingston's on demand channel it's rather entertaining to hear them always trying to sell that idea.
    P.S. Did anyone tell the Springer's that they don't own Kingston? For that matter did anyone tell city council as well?

  • October 9, 2012 at 11:41 am

    This whole Casino Caper smells.. I do not believe for a minute that the Mayor ever had an open mind on this issue. His impartiality was nothing more then a pretense so that he may be seen to be fair while pushing the pro casino agenda behind the scenes. His facebook statement is a textbook case of cherry picking when it comes to poll results. No mention of the Kingstonist poll. How about the downtown business association's survey of it's members. How about those those concerned citizens who voted with their feet to attend the City's special meeting on the issue. His compete abrogation of responsibility for moral and social ramifications is staggering. And if your reassured by Councils vote against putting the casino downtown .. don't be. There are forces at work.

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