Hall Monitor: Full House

September 19, 2012July 26, 2017 Josie Vallier

Council met last night for meeting 21-2012 of Kingston City Council. I’ve joked about not commenting on meeting lengths before, but this was going to be a long one – and we knew it. You can find the agenda and addeds on the city’s website. The meeting last night was as busy as it was long, too – we had a full house in chambers (Including some out-of-town visitors), and even the overflow in memorial hall opened up. The majority of the debate centered around two items – so let’s get them out of the way first.

The first big item was a briefing and Q&A session with the OLG. Now, most of the information presented (Or provided through answers) wasn’t new – especially to people who have been following this debate closely, both here and in other communities. On the city’s side, questions were asked about costs and revenue projections, employment and benefits, the risk of the money drain away from existing establishments, zoning, terminology, conditional acceptance rules, timelines, crime and theft and, of course, problem gambling. Most answers – like the move from 27 facilities to 29, or that Ganonoque and Kingston are in the same “zone” have been widely known, but it was nice to hear them re-iterated. The OLG’s answers, mid you, seemed to constantly mention that htis is just a question of “willing to allow” a casino – and that a pass at this stage doesn’t guarantee one – there would still need to be a venue, business plan, zoning changes, an operator would need to want to open one (And be willing to shut Ganonoque’s down) and finally the whole thing would be subject to OLG approval before it happens. A lot of great information (In 1 hour, 50 minutes), overall – including the nugget that the city has – in all honesty – until the end of the year to decide on this. It’s on-deck for October 2… I’m doubtful that’ll happen, now.

The other big one (1 hour, 53 minutes) was the re-awarding of management of the K-Rock Centre to SMG. The city had previously put this project out as part of an RFP process – and got three options back, of which staff presented two for consideration. Councillor Neill got the ball rolling, by tabling the option supporting Global Spectrum – though much of the discussion and talk after that point was in SMG’s favour, rather than Global’s. The bulk of the comments praising SMG discussed the substantial ($700,000.00) guaranteed return as well as our existing relationship with them, while the bulk of the comments favouring Global were in favour of trying something new, and it’s focus on service. After much discussion (And a slightly contentious motion to extend), the proposal inf favour of Global lost (11-2; Councillor Neill and Mayor Gerretsen in favour), and the SMG item subsequently won (12-1, only opposed was Councillor Neill).

A handful of other things took place, too – presentations of Diamond Jubilee medals to two Kingstonians who couldn’t be at the presentation in Ottawa (Joshua Edwards and George Muirhead, confirmation of the 2013 meeting dates, a few car sharing parking spaces and support for rooftop solar projects. Oh, and a motion to regulate tanning beds for people who aren’t 19 or over was tabled – then deferred. A busy night, indeed.

The full tweet stream (A record, I believe) is below. A “special meeting” of Council is set for September 24th – I’ll try to be there. The next regular meeting is October 2nd.

7:10 PM: Overflow room is all set up. Expecting a crowd tonight. #ygk #ygkc ^TV http://t.co/g2IL6v0K
7:21 PM: Getting all set up at City Hall. Will be broadcasting shortly! #ygkc ^TV
7:29 PM: Crossing the 7:30 mark. No sign of council, clerks, Mayor or key city staffers yet. #ygkc ^TV
7:40 PM: First councillors, Coun. Hutchison and @JimNeill3 have arrived. #ygkc ^TV
7:45 PM: Looks like we’ve got council, the commissioners, clerks and staff all present now. I”d say 5 more minutes. #ygkc ^TV
7:51 PM: DING DING! Away we go! Meeting 2012-21 begins. 7:51 pm. #ygkc ^TV
7:52 PM: @MayorOfKingston says that they have been in closed meeting since about 5:45pm. Long closed session! #ygkc ^TV
7:52 PM: And yes, we’re clearing past the closed meeting items without a report. One wasn’t expected there. #ygkc ^TV
7:53 PM: Expected disclosure from Coun. Schell on the OLG item. Presentations of Diamond Jubilee medals up. #ygkc ^TV
7:55 PM: Joshua Edwards is receiving his for leadership and volunteerism with non-profits, ministries and nursing homes. #ygkc ^TV
7:57 PM: This presentation is @MayorOfKingston’s first formal medal pinning presentation. #offbeatfact #ygkc ^TV
7:59 PM: Second medal is to George Muirhead for his history research and work on heritage legislation and projects. #ygkc ^TV
8:00 PM: I bet the Gov. General can [pin these medals] a lot faster than me. #mayorjokes #ygkc ^TV
8:01 PM: @MayorOfKingston pulls out his gavel – “Clerk recommended I bring it tonight” #mayorjokes #ygkc ^TV
8:03 PM: We’re getting a quick delegation from KFL&A about the proposed regulation to bar tanning beds for those under 19. #ygkc ^TV
8:07 PM: Dr. Moore mentions that there are 18 tanning facilities in #ygk – “Same as Tim Hortons”. #ygkc ^TV
8:09 PM: Coun. Scott asks about it being at provincial level; Delegate responds that this is a precaution in case bill fails. #ygkc ^TV
8:10 PM: Coun. Schell asks about the 19 instead of 18. Answer is about enforcement: Tobacco, alcohol and tanning would all be at 19. #ygkc ^TV
8:11 PM: OLG Briefing. Here we go. They have a 5-person delegation, 10 minutes. #ygkc ^TV
8:12 PM: Speaker jokes that @MayorOfKingston’s time-keeping is well-known; they were well-warned. #ygkc ^TV
8:13 PM: Sorry, 3-person team. Backgrounder on OLG, it’s history and current operations; says most money goes to hospitals. #ygkc ^TV
8:14 PM: Follow the Q&A LIVE on uSteam – http://t.co/8diLs9B8. #ygkc ^TV cc @fraserrc
8:15 PM: OLG says that the plan will bring them from 27 sites to… 29. #ygkc ^TV
8:16 PM: Talking about the gaming zone – E3. Roughly runs from Gananoque’s east border, to Kingston’s west border. #ygkc ^TV
8:18 PM: OLG clarifies: Decision before council right now is just if the city is open to the idea of being a potential site. #ygkc ^TV
8:19 PM: OLG’s comparison numbers are all coming from London — they feel it’s a better comparison than Gan. #ygkc ^TV
8:20 PM: Last few points are on problem gambling: OLG says they spend more money on this issue than any other organization. #ygkc ^TV
8:22 PM: Briefing complete, we’re into Q&A. Starting with Coun. Scott. #ygkc ^TV
8:23 PM: Question is from Coun. Scott about why the whole city isn’t in zone E3. #ygkc ^TV
8:23 PM: OLG: Zones are based on proximity to customers, are open to expanding to match with geographical lines. #ygkc ^TV
8:25 PM: Coun. Paterson asking about what the OLG’s stand on condition attachment. OLG is open to conditions being attached. #ygkc ^TV
8:26 PM: Additional reminder from OLG that this decision is just about whether or not the city is even open to the concept. #ygkc ^TV
8:27 PM: Coun. Paterson asking about the differences between the gross benefits OLG provided, and the potential net benefits. #ygkc ^TV
8:29 PM: OLG: The potential net benefits for a new host are going to be something that would be addressed with a new biz partner. #ygkc ^TV
8:30 PM: Coun. Paterson asking about staffing: OLG says that a lot of the Gan employees are currently Kingston residents. #ygkc ^TV
8:33 PM: Coun. Downes asking about the terminology being used. OLG avoids “Privatization”, but does use “casino”. #ygkc ^TV
8:35 PM: Coun. Downes asking why timelines are so tight – too tight for a referendum, says Downes. #ygkc ^TV
8:36 PM: OLG says they’ve seen referendums work and not work; feels councils represent their communities and should be sufficient. #ygkc ^TV
8:37 PM: Coun. Downes asking about the percentage of revenues that go into community. OLG: Based on 2% of slot revenues. #ygkc ^TV
8:38 PM: Coun. Downes says that an ad in Quebec says that 20% of bar-gaming players are prblm gamblers. Wants to know why the discreteness. #ygkc ^TV
8:39 PM: OLG: Ontario doesn’t allow video lottery terminals in bars; facilities are more supervised. Suggests this could be the reasoning. #ygkc ^TV
8:40 PM: @JimNeill3 asking about the attachment of conditions. Wants to know how the city gets power over location and nature of business. #ygkc ^TV
8:41 PM: OLG: City would still need to approve the zoning and site plans. Operators don’t want to be where they’re not wanted. #ygkc ^TV
8:44 PM: @JimNeill3 asking about risk of future changes. Gan just celebrated 10 years, now may lose casino. #ygkc ^TV
8:45 PM: OLG: There is always the potential for another government to change things; this model’s private investments help reduce risk. #ygkc ^TV
8:46 PM: OLG: We weren’t expecting that communities that aren’t in zones want to be. #ygkc ^TV
8:46 PM: @JimNeill3: “One more comment… ” @MayorOfKingston: “It needs to be a question.” JN: “… in the form of a question”. #ygkc ^TV
8:47 PM: @JimNeill3 asking about support or the racing industry, says casinos/slots/gaming cuts into their market. #ygkc ^TV
8:48 PM: OLG says they have provided $3bn+ to the industry, and OLG maintains facilities at the tracks. Has a good relationship. #ygkc ^TV
8:50 PM: Coun. Osanic asking about crime rates. OLG says that OPP is at every site in the form of the AGCO. #ygkc ^TV
8:53 PM: Coun. Osanic asking about community funding; OLG: Proceeds to the hosts are always tied to revenues. #ygkc ^TV
8:54 PM: Coun. Osanic asking about benefits: Will operator be requires to provide benefits? #ygkc ^TV
8:55 PM: OLG: That is up to the operators; these are good jobs, sought after, well paying jobs. #ygkc ^TV
8:55 PM: @MayorOfKingston asks if they haul thief to the back room. OLG CEO jokes: “We have the OPP for that” #ygkc ^TV
8:57 PM: @BrianReitzel asking about lifespan of a casino, says they’re generally 12-14 years. Wants to know about operator contracts. #ygkc ^TV
8:58 PM: OLG: Operators generally want a longer contract for cost recovery. Will provide more specifics to successful candidate cities. #ygkc ^TV
8:58 PM: @BrianReitzel wants to know about the drain of money from downtowns and other area businesses. #ygkc ^TV
8:59 PM: OLG: Would depend on the city. Facilities like Atlantic City are designed to draw all of the money. #ygkc ^TV
9:00 PM: OLG: Many OLG sites work locally, providing vouchers, coupons & free dinners. Have had very good experiences in other communities. #ygkc ^TV
9:02 PM: @BrianReitzel comments about his history in the 70s with the LCBO. Says @MayorOfKingston: “You must be really old…” #mayorjokes #ygkc ^TV
9:03 PM: @BrianReitzel asking if this is going to be the same type of growth changes. Less back-alley gambling, more front-end. #ygkc ^TV
9:04 PM: OLG: Says that it’s a reasonable comparison, gives numbers for gaming players. Says they’re moving into online gaming next year. #ygkc ^TV
9:04 PM: OLG CEO jokes about friends pokers games: “If I’m there, it’s legal; if I’m not, I don’t want to know about it.” #ygkc ^TV
9:05 PM: @BrianReitzel asking if the facilities are required to deposit moneys into banks. OLG says that there are oversights. #ygkc ^TV
9:07 PM: Coun. Hutchison: Council asked the OLG to hold a public meeting; wants to know if they will. #ygkc ^TV
9:08 PM: OLG: Not planning on hosting public meetings. Confident that municipal council are the more effective group for those. #ygkc ^TV
9:08 PM: OLG: Adds that they are always willing to take questions from cities. #ygkc ^TV
9:09 PM: Coun. Hutchison asks if the province has ever conducted a cost-benefit analysis of casino gambling incl. social and biz costs. #ygkc ^TV
9:09 PM: OLG: Doesn’t know of one. Coun. Hutchison follows up asking if the OLG has conducted one. #ygkc ^TV
9:10 PM: OLG: Conducts research regularly (provided numbers earlier) including costs and benefits. Coun. Hutchison interpets that as a no. #ygkc ^TV
9:11 PM: Coun. Hutchison asking about employee counts. OLG: About 200 full time, 200-220 part time; can’t define the “many, many” percent from #ygk
9:12 PM: Coun. Hutchison: A move to Kingston would mean more gamblers, more money. And asks if that would mean more problem gamblers. #ygkc ^TV
9:13 PM: OLG: Percentage (appx 3.5%) is quite stable; but a percentage of a larger number is a larger number. #ygkc ^TV
9:14 PM: OLG rep on Problem Gambling adds that the percentage likely to not change because no new forms of gambling are being introduced. #ygkc ^TV
9:15 PM: For those keeping score, we’ve just passed the 1-hour mark on the OLG briefing. #ygkc ^TV
9:16 PM: OLG Prob. Rep: Best impact is done in prevention. Says business model is best with moderate, healthy, long-term players. #ygkc ^TV
9:18 PM: OLG adds: Building tools that monitor behaviours; and can then notify staff/player of dramatic or problematic changes. #ygkc ^TV
9:18 PM: Coun. Hutchison: How can the OLG be sure that a group presenting themselves as legitimate isn’t 4-points removed from org. crime. #ygkc ^TV
9:20 PM: OLG: A reminder that all owners/operators/staff; including contractors, go through extensive background checks. #ygkc ^TV
9:22 PM: Coun. Hutchison asking about the OLGs’ mandate to be profitable; Asks about in-house entertainment, hotels and food. #ygkc ^TV
9:23 PM: OLG says that revenue expectations are from gaming. Additional facilities are community and operator dependent. #ygkc ^TV
9:24 PM: @DorothyAHector asking about how the facility might fit into the city’s current plans. #ygkc ^TV
9:25 PM: OLG re-adds, that the facility would only be in a place that is open. Operators don’t want to be someone they’re not wanted. #ygkc ^TV
9:25 PM: @DorothyAHector asking about communities that may lose facilities. OLG says they’ve just closed a few for the first time… #ygkc ^TV
9:26 PM: … continued funding for a full year past the close date.
9:27 PM: OLG adds that the operator may not want to leave Gan in the end, and there would be a long lead time. #ygkc ^TV
9:28 PM: Coun. Glover asking about the increase of facilities by 20%, but a revenue increase of 50%. #ygkc ^TV
9:29 PM: OLG reminds that the change is from 27 facilities to 29, not 24 to 29. Revenues include all changes, lotteries included. #ygkc ^TV
9:30 PM: OLG adds that the biggest changes are in lottery, a possible resort-style facility in Toronto, and online gaming. #ygkc ^TV
9:31 PM: Coun. Glover iterates that money would be pulled away from the community and into casino. Wants to know what OLG’s plans are. #ygkc ^TV
9:32 PM: OLG: All entertainment (Like movie-going) has some money that leaves the community. OLG puts money back into communities. #ygkc ^TV
9:33 PM: Coun. Glover’s concerns are that restaurants or a concert facility would draw money away from our own existing venues. #ygkc ^TV
9:37 PM: OLG says that a number of studies are available from municipalities on how the revenues have improved communities. #ygkc ^TV
9:38 PM: [email protected] clarifies. Downtown BIA didn’t ask the OLG, but asked a potential developer. #ygkc ^TV
9:41 PM: Coun. Glover asking about location criteria. OLG says that factors like nearby access, amenities are considered by OLG/operator. #ygkc ^TV
9:42 PM: Coun. Glover clarifying “willing host” – just a motion from a council, or does public opinion matter? #ygkc ^TV
9:42 PM: OLG clarifies that a motion of council is all that would be required. #ygkc ^TV
9:43 PM: Coun. George asking about facility ownership. OLG says that they have a mixture of ownership and leases. #ygkc ^TV
9:43 PM: We’re streaming the Q&A with the OLG (And the rest of the meeting) from council chambers. Follow along at http://t.co/8diLs9B8
9:44 PM: Coun. George is asking about facilities after a casino leaves; OLG says that the solutions depend on the buildings themselves. #ygkc ^TV
9:45 PM: @councillorberg asking about the research for problem gambling. #ygkc ^TV
9:46 PM: OLG says that they fund research and provide money, data and facility access to academics doing research. #ygkc ^TV
9:47 PM: We’ve wrapped through all councillors. Onto @MayorOfKingston’s questions. Wants some clarifications. #ygkc ^TV
9:48 PM: Data, clarified by the OLG appx 80% of Ontario plays the lottery once/yr. appx 30% visit a casino. #ygkc ^TV
9:48 PM: Mayor clarifies the facility counts. OLG clarifies: 29 at start, 3 closed, 5 opening. Net growth: 2 facilities. #ygkc ^TV
9:49 PM: Net growth in this area, 0. Gan would need to loose theirs for #ygk to receive one. #ygkc ^TV
9:50 PM: OLG says clarification on funding expectations would probably be available in about three weeks. #ygkc ^TV
9:51 PM: @MayorOfKingston clarifying timelines. OLG says that operators want to know which communities are interested. #ygkc ^TV
9:52 PM: Directly asked by @MayorOfKingston, the OLG confirms that they don’t need an answer from #ygk until the end of the year. #ygkc ^TV
9:53 PM: @MayorOfKingston asking about profit split between OLG and the casino operators. Wants to know potential money loss to others. #ygkc ^TV
9:55 PM: OLG: to make the $2billion that OLG makes, they need to gross 7bn. The $2bn is what stays in Ontario. #ygkc ^TV
9:55 PM: @MayorOfKingston clarifying the Kingston/Gan question. OLG says the question is simply “Is Kingston open”. #ygkc ^TV
9:56 PM: OLG adds that additional decisions from Kingston, OLG, operators will come forward as time progresses. #ygkc ^TV
9:58 PM: Confirmation rec’d by @MayorOfKingston that conditions could be attached to a motion of approval of interest. #ygkc ^TV
9:58 PM: OLG adds that those conditions probably aren’t required; would be good to hear all options. #ygkc ^TV
10:00 PM: Briefing is completed. 1hr, 45 minutes. We hear a quick joke from @JimNeill3 about the chair and move into petitions. #ygkc ^TV
10:02 PM: Congratulatory motions to #ygk firefighters, SLC SIFE, Home Base Housing’s director … #ygkc ^TV
10:02 PM: … and the director at Kingston Community Health Centres. #ygkc ^TV
10:04 PM: Into report 102. The bulk of which passes (including a car time share allowance). #ygkc ^TV
10:06 PM: Some quick debate and discussion over some council and committee dates in 2013. #ygkc ^TV
10:09 PM: Come quick Q&A on a rooftop solar application program; Coun. Scott wants to know if large arrays are excluded. #ygkc ^TV
10:10 PM: @MayorOfKingston declares conflict as and steps out, staff confirms it’s rooftops-only for Coun. Scott; and it passes. #ygkc ^TV
10:10 PM: We’re into 103 now. Starting with the K-Rock Centre RFP. Here we go again. Timestamp, 10:10 pm. #ygkc ^TV
10:12 PM: Getting a quick briefing on how we came to this point from the commissioner. Then into Q&A. #ygkc ^TV
10:13 PM: City rec’d three submissions, is presenting two to the city. 3rd was determined by staff to not be in the best interest of city. #ygkc ^TV
10:14 PM: Taking a #personalrecess during the inro. Webcam is live at http://t.co/8diLs9B8 or follow the #ygkc hashtag!
10:18 PM: Just getting back to the desk – Q&A with the commissioner right now about the into and proposals in general. #ygkc ^TV
10:20 PM: Two options on the table, will be presented one at a time after Q&A. One from current mgr, SMG; and the other from Global Spectrum #ygkc ^TV
10:21 PM: Coun. Osanic confirming that both proposals include debit/credit terminals at concessions…. They do. #ygkc ^TV
10:24 PM: Coun. Glover asking about accessibility. Rec’d an email from a resident in a wheelchair who felt slighted at a specific show. #ygkc ^TV
10:26 PM: Staff: Building was built to code at the time. RFP handles potential future changes and customer service. #ygkc ^TV
10:28 PM: Coun. Glover asks about the Fronts: Attendance guesses vary Wondering if staff knows if SMG or Global have talked with the Fronts. #ygkc ^TV
10:29 PM: Staff: Fronts owner says that they are hoping to achieve 3000/game in the near future. #ygkc ^TV
10:30 PM: [email protected] reminds the SMG and Global folks in the room, that nodding or commenting right now is not allowed. #ygkc ^TV
10:31 PM: Coun. Glover asking about exit clauses. Staff confirms that item would be subject to negotiations with successful bidder. #ygkc ^TV
10:32 PM: Coun. Glover asking about salary/employees. Who pays, who do they work for, how many employees…. #ygkc ^TV
10:33 PM: Staff says that some of the non-event workload would likely be corporate-based, but most would be local-level stuff. #ygkc ^TV
10:34 PM: Staff says that the staffing models are different with each company, which is accounting for the differences in costs. #ygkc ^TV
10:36 PM: Coun. Glover asking about the qualitative part – the gut feeling; Staff says that the Global item was more detailed. #ygkc ^TV
10:38 PM: Questions from @DorothyAHector about cost differences between the two are so close, given different spending plans. #ygkc ^TV
10:40 PM: @DorothyAHector asks about the profit planning: who’s making more money at the end of the day? City or the company? #ygkc ^TV
10:43 PM: Coun. Downes: Wondering if the RFP is a risk analysis; Staff says some parts would be, yes. #ygkc ^TV
10:46 PM: Coun. Downes asking for claification on exactly how much money the city would get from the new operator today. #ygkc ^TV
10:47 PM: Staff: Guaranteed money from SMG: 2.75mil + 750k over five years; guarantee from Global: 0. #ygkc ^TV
10:49 PM: @MayorOfKingston wants to know how much the city has rec’d to date from the existing operator (SMG) #ygkc ^TV
10:51 PM: Staff: 2008: 150k (partial year), 2009: appx 700k, 2010: 510k, 2011: appx 400k. Staff: Average is appx 550k/yr. #ygkc ^TV
10:52 PM: @MayorOfKingston wants to know the value of the $700,000.00 guarantee from SMG. #ygkc ^TV
10:54 PM: Staff deflecting to the report; both options show that a 700k return is achievable. #ygkc ^TV
10:56 PM: @MayorOfKingston asking about how the current provider can simply project a 2% increase in food/beverage sales. #ygkc ^TV
10:56 PM: Staff says that the 2% number is the city’s commission, not a sales/profit projection. #ygkc ^TV
10:58 PM: Motion to extend asked for my @MayorOfKingston. Moved. Seconded. #ygkc ^TV
10:59 PM: @DorothyAHector asks to defer all non-time-sensitive items. Motion doesn’t cover that. #ygkc ^TV
11:00 PM: Discussion about the deferrals. @MayorOfKingston says that he’d want a special meeting, not def. to next reg. mtg. #ygkc ^TV
11:02 PM: Motion to extend to end of agenda carries. #ygkc ^TV
11:04 PM: Coun. Schell asking about the breakdown of suite and ticket fees. #ygkc ^TV
11:07 PM: Staff is discussing the differences in attendance projections and event count projections. #ygkc ^TV
11:11 PM: Coun. Hutchison asked about staff’s thoughts on revenues. Staff is encouraged that both suggested million-dollar revenues. #ygkc ^TV
11:13 PM: Discussion on Front’s attendance guesses: one suggests 3100, the other, 2600. Fronts owner projects 3000. #ygkc ^TV
11:14 PM: Coun. Hutchison says: I guess we’re analysing what the sense of optimism is here. #ygkc ^TV
11:16 PM: Staff: The question was really on year 1. Trust is there that years 2-5 would be completed per proposal’s plan. #ygkc ^TV
11:17 PM: Year one is the critical factor, since it’s the easiest comparison and indicates the proponent’s confidence. #ygkc ^TV
11:22 PM: Coun. Hutchison asking about contract terml wondering about a potential shorter contract. #ygkc ^TV
11:22 PM: Staff: No; existing contract was 5yrs, with city’s option to extend 5 more. 5-yr contract has accountability advantages. #ygkc ^TV
11:23 PM: Staff: A longer contract would potentially mean more investment on the operator’s part. #ygkc ^TV
11:24 PM: We’re into debate; Item on the floor is the Global Spectrum option. #ygkc ^TV
11:24 PM: The Global item is moved by @JimNeill3, seconded by Coun. Hutchison; Coun. Downes comments against the proposal. #ygkc ^TV
11:25 PM: Coun. Downes says he specifically asked about a “severe economic downturn” when the first contract was granted. #ygkc ^TV
11:27 PM: Coun. Downes says he’s extremely cautious with the KRC. Wants the cash-in-hand guarantee. #ygkc ^TV
11:29 PM: Some procedural by-law debate going on about who gets to speak first/last on items. #ygkc ^TV
11:30 PM: @JimNeill3 What we should be going on here is performance. There’s a strong sense that [SMG] is under-performing. #ygkc ^TV
11:31 PM: @JimNeill3 comments that staff ranked Global higher. Global also already has a portfolio base in Ontario. #ygkc ^TV
11:35 PM: After timing/speaking/policy debate with @JimNeill3, @MayorOfKingston cuts him off exactly at the five-minute mark. #ygkc ^TV
11:36 PM: Coun. George comments on adages: It’s sometimes better to deal with the devil you know than the devil you don’t. #ygkc ^TV
11:38 PM: Coun. George is voting against the Global option. Says the market was a down market; appreciates the guarantee. #ygkc ^TV
11:40 PM: Coun. Paterson: This isn’t a vote between change and the status quo; SMG’s proposal is far different from their last one. #ygkc ^TV
11:41 PM: Coun. Paterson says that Global makes 120k in mgmt for 700k KRC revenue. KRC under SMG needs to revenue 1.2(?) million for 700k. #ygkc ^TV
11:42 PM: Coun. Osanic supporting SMG; Global has other facilities, but all in much larger communities. #ygkc ^TV
11:43 PM: Coun. Osanic is concerned about the family show projections; SMG’s tried, they’re tough to pull in. #ygkc ^TV
11:44 PM: Coun. Glover also supporting SMG. Says that even though recession, KRC didn’t do too badly. #ygkc ^TV
11:46 PM: Coun. Glover commenting that he (and analysts) are not expecting an increase in spending cash. Appreciate’s SMG’s guarantee. #ygkc ^TV
11:47 PM: @DorothyAHector has struggled: Wants to see a hybrid. Joining in against Global; but SMG would still need more changes. #ygkc ^TV
11:48 PM: @DorothyAHector says that SMG needs to make more of a local effort; no more dark suites. #ygkc ^TV
11:50 PM: @DorothyAHector likes a lot of the offers from Global; can’t support the risk – not her money, it’s taxpayer’s. #ygkc ^TV
11:51 PM: @MayorOfKingston Not happy with 700k. Wants to see the building make enough to cover the mortgage – as SMG first promised. #ygkc ^TV
11:52 PM: Staff brought this to council as they are two VERY different items. Cost cuts, and “takes money/makes money” #ygkc ^TV
11:52 PM: @MayorOfKingston comparing the KRC to K-Rock, the station. Always sees the station in the community. Wants that kind of partner. #ygkc ^TV
11:54 PM: @MayorOfKingston Even in the worse times: We were seeing near-guarantee returns. Says SMG “jumped” on the thrid proposal’s number #ygkc ^TV
11:54 PM: @MayorOfKingston: It’s important to appreciate the service part. Is ready to try another company’s promise. #ygkc ^TV
11:55 PM: @MayorOfKingston: “I’m looking for a different business model”. Other mayors have been happy with svc from Global. #ygkc ^TV
11:57 PM: Coun. Hutchison: It’s not often we have debates where everyone brings up important point. Most are disappointed with SMG. #ygkc ^TV
11:57 PM: Coun. Hutchison Global appears to be better organized; but the numbers are concerning. #ygkc ^TV
12:00 AM: Coun. Hutchison: My responsibility is to the taxpayers. Seconded the item for the debate; Will vote against. #ygkc ^TV
12:01 AM: @councillorberg Thanking all three proponents. Says city can’t go wrong with either. Is supporting SMG. #ygkc ^TV
12:02 AM: @JimNeill3: Is disappointed. Says more than a dollar figure was evaluated by staff (Who ranked Global highers). #ygkc ^TV
12:03 AM: @JimNeill3: Says this is a missed opportunity. SMG has not been the best at customer service. #ygkc ^TV
12:05 AM: @MayorOfKingston “Let it be known, that @JimNeill3 and I have agreed on a business decision.” #ygkc ^TV
12:06 AM: Result: Lost 11-2 | REQ: MG | Yea: MG, JN | Nay: SB, RD, KG, BG, DH, RH, LO, BP, BR, LS, JS #rv #ygkc ^TV
12:06 AM: And SMG item is up on the table, too. Coun. Downes says SMG should be learning a lesson from tonight’s debate. #ygkc ^TV
12:07 AM: Follow-up: Result: Pass 12-1 | REQ: MG | Yea: SB, RD, KG, MG, BG, DH, RH, LO, BP, BR, LS, JS | Nay: JN #rv #ygkc ^TV
12:08 AM: And we’re into report 104. That’s right – we’re not done yet! #ygkc ^TV
12:10 AM: Just to clarify: SMG is awarded the next 5 year contract. Global vote loses 11-2; then SMG passes 12-1. #ygkc ^TV
12:12 AM: Debate is on a portion of an item involving living in a cellar. City has historically not permitted, but laws do allow. #ygkc ^TV
12:16 AM: Cellar result: Pass 8-4 | REQ: RD | Yea: SB, KG, DH, LO, BP, BR, LS, JS | Nay: RD, BG, RH, JN #rv #ygkc ^TV
12:17 AM: Information reports all clear, we’re into misc. business now. #ygkc ^TV
12:19 AM: Misc business items all pass. We’re into new motions. #ygkc ^TV
12:19 AM: Motion to ask the hospitals about the cost breakdowns for the new build passes. #ygkc ^TV
12:21 AM: Tanning bed restriction by-law up now. #ygkc ^TV
12:22 AM: Note, the motion wouldn’t restrict immediately, it’s sending the item to the APC if it passes for debate and discussion. #ygkc ^TV
12:24 AM: Deferral from mover/seconder until after the province makes a decision approved. Opposed by RD, JN, RH, BG. #ygkc ^TV
12:25 AM: We’re now looking at a motion that would send a letter supporting eradication of contraband tobacco. #ygkc ^TV
12:27 AM: Tobacco item passes, too. Next is a letter in support of the RMC 1812 Point Frederick item passes. Unanimously. #ygkc ^TV
12:27 AM: Some debate on if @JimNeill3’s hand went up. It did. Coun. Hutchison: “He has a very short hand” #ygkc ^TV
12:28 AM: Minutes pass. Communications tabled. @DorothyAHector alerts council that the FCM report will be sent soon. #ygkc ^TV
12:29 AM: [email protected] – a special meeting of #ygkc about upgrades is on Sept 24; I’ll be there. Nov and Dec meetings will be off-site. #ygkc ^TV
12:29 AM: Municipal Queen’s Park day is coming, soon, too. We’re into by-laws. #ygkc ^TV
12:31 AM: Adjourn. 12:31 am. #ygkc ^TV
12:43 AM: Thanks for following along. Watch for the summary tomorrow on the site! #ygkc ^TV

Thanks to reneilet for today’s original photo.

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